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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 09:49, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Miss Nude Universe[edit]

Miss Nude Universe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

I speedy deleted this as the whole content was "Miss Nude Universe is an annual beauty contest where contestants appear in the nude. Two noteworthy contestants are Nina Mercedez and Lauren Powers. [ab:both red links]" This was objected to, so I then userfied it. This was objected to, so I sent it to deletion review. There appears to be some differenace of opinion on what do do with contested deletions of content-free article on topics that might be notable, much to my suprise. This article (and I use the term loosely) makes no claim to notability, and at this stage exists only to support an external link to a commercial venture. The link to The Age is trivial in the extreme. Unless multiple non-trivial sources are provided to demonstrate verifiability and notability this should be deleted. /* This micro-micro stub should have stayed deleted and a real article written, but that's water under the bridge. */ brenneman 02:26, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

NB: Zero Gnews hits, and in the first tne pages of the 481 unique Ghits there were two that were from reliable sources, but both deeply trivial: very brief Sexpo mewntion from The Age that was already in the article and a listing for Playboy Magazine (February 1968) appears to have had an article about it. Note that even if this is the same contenst (as opposed to just an ŭber-genericly-named one) that's hardly "multiple non-trivial" mentions. </rant>
brenneman 02:37, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete The history here does appear to be murky; the web site claims that the pageant has run since the mid 60's, but it is unclear whether the pageant winners in the 60s were in the same pageant, or just one with the same name. It would be nice to have a reliable third-party history, and we don't have one. It has clearly never had much notoriety outside the "adult" community, except briefly in the 60s when Playboy was publicizing it (if that was in fact the same title.) If more sources were found, I might change my vote. --Brianyoumans 03:02, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unless sourced - unless we can get some real sources in here, this article should be deleted. --Haemo 03:22, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy Delete, No official Miss Nude Universe title. No website for the contest. No real reference. looks like a hoax to me. --Tarawneh 03:47, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Dwanyewest 11:24, 12 February 2007 (UTC)I found the official websiste [1] i have emailed them to confirm the people i have stated have appeared in the competition as claimed thats gotta count for something.[reply]
That is not even a web site. It is just an adult search engine :) check it out. Press the I agree key. Any one can build such a search website. You just buy a domain name, place it in the hands of adults websites, and earn money. --Tarawneh 23:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: Apparently pagent changed its name to "Miss Nude World" [2]. -- Infrogmation 04:22, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • My 5 years old son can do something better than a two unformatted pages. --Tarawneh 07:15, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unless more sources are found. I've heard news stories about this contest for years (on legit news programs, to boot). I'm really surprised there's no web site for this contest, especially in this age of all sort of "adult content" on the web. (Maybe I should start one, eh??) Does seem a bit odd, so dump it. Realkyhick 04:03, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • keep google nets almost 450 distinct hits, which I think is enough to prove that this thing actually exists. I can't find any real press for the contest, which is kind of arbitrary since there are no notability guidelines for beauty pageants. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 04:35, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • The PNC applies here just as it does elsewhere, as indeed does our Wikipedia:Verifiability policy. If you cannot find anything at all written about the pageant, how do you expect an article to be written about it? Uncle G 07:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • I would argue that there are enough reliable sources that make minor mention of the subject so that it passes WP:Verifiability. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 18:48, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • I would agree if the information can be used to build a meaningful article, but mere mention of its existance 500 times, doesn't build the text. See my note below about a Miss Nude Pageants article. --Kevin Murray 19:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • So where are these reliable sources that tell us about this subject, then? Please cite some. You appear to be conflating a non-zero count of Google search results with the existence of sources. Counting Google hits is not research. It's necessary to actually read the things that Google turns up. Do so, and you'll find that there's scant information that is directly about this pageant. I've yet to find a reliable source that gives the year that the pageant started, for example. If you find one, please cite it. Uncle G 00:49, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. It exists. It used to make weird news occasionally when I was younger. Doczilla 05:09, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete One would think that given how big porn is on the net, and that this pagent has apparently been running since the 60s, there would be some reliable sources. Damned if I can find them, however. This suggests to me that while we can verify its existence, it simply is not notable. Resolute 05:17, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, there appear to have been at least two, possibly separate, Miss Nude Universe pageants -- the one that Kitten Natividad is said to have won in the early 1970s, and the one owned by Rio Rivers that folded in 2005 after "15 years" in the business (pace infrogmation). --Dhartung | Talk 05:44, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Page 124 of ISBN 0595309267 confirms that at least one Miss Nude Universe pageant exists. But that is all that it says about it, including it in a laundry list of "other special pageants". I can also find sources that state that there was a Miss Nude Universe Pageant held in Naked City (Roselawn, Indiana) in the 1960s and 1970s. But Naked City closed in 1986 when Dick Drost left, and, once again, the sources don't actually say anything about the pageant since it is Naked City that they are in fact discussing. Indeed, there are several that say that it was actually Miss Nude America, not Universe. I can also find several biographies of people that state that they were "winner of Miss Nude Universe" in some year or other.

    There's tangential information all over the place about other things that mention this pageant, or some other similarly named one. There are people who are recorded as having won a title of Miss Nude Universe. There is a nudist camp that is recorded as having hosted a contest by that name. But the important 3 words are "about other things". There's scant information that is actually about the pageant directly. I am unable to find out even basic information about the pageant itself, such as a list of year-by-year winners, or even that all of these disparate snippets of information in discussions of other things are actually about the same single contest. Uncle G 07:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak delete It's not *really* notable.. though it is sourced and does exist.. Whilding87 09:41, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as per Brianyoumans' and Uncle G's comments. It appears difficult to get reliable information on the thing. Perhaps if someone later actually gets that information and actually types it in, the article could be revived.Noroton 15:00, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom and Uncle G. Actually, with recent controversies the real Miss Univers is in some ways more titillating than this "shocking" faux one. Inkpaduta 15:28, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral Comment There might be enough here to write an article about Miss Nude Pageants: World, Universe, America, Australia etc with redirects from each and discuss the history of the various pagents. But as Uncle G says it's pretty spotty info. --Kevin Murray 19:17, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I started a project page at: User:Kevin murray/miss nude. Feel free to drop off your research and ideas. Now it is just the text from this stub and comments by editors above. --Kevin Murray 19:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete Only because there's not much substance to go on other than some notables who've won although I have heard of this pageant before. --† Ðy§ep§ion † Speak your mind 19:55, 10 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, being a stub isn't a good enough reason for deletion. I think it is a clear from this discussion that something of this sort certainly has existed and been mentioned in the media multiple times.Though future editors should also take heed of this discussion and be carefull in building up this page as clearly this subject has a confusing and murky history. Mathmo Talk 06:12, 11 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete At the Deletion Review I objected to a disputed speedy bypassing AfD, & think it was very reasonably sent here, and now we can very reasonably review it, and of course recognize it as junk. From its external references, it seems to be slightly disguised advertising.DGG 01:39, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per a very convincing nom. YechielMan 22:51, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Potential References The following are potential references for an article renamed "Miss Nude Pageants"

--Kevin Murray 03:53, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep, since it appears that it can reasonably be expanded. There's certainly no reason to delete it simply because it's a stub. fbb_fan 03:24, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral, I'm going to give this a chance to add third party sources, but if they don't turn up in a few weeks, I'd say delete. by the way This is not a hoax, the pageant changed its name., see http://www.missnudeworldpageant.com/ Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 04:00, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete nomination is convincing and presetn article states nothign that is not entirely obvious from the title. Let us know if multiple non-trivial indepednent coverage is referenced before the end of the debate - it is not now. Guy (Help!) 20:35, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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